Scott Muni R.I.P.

[Intheway1]

A fixture of New York radio for nearly 50 years, starting with MCA in the late
50s.


Fred

From Reuters...


LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Scott Muni, one of the legendary voices of
New York radio, died Tuesday. He was 74.

The cause of death was not immediately known.

The popular disc jockey, who was an AM and FM star for nearly 50 years in the
country's biggest radio market, suffered a stroke in January. It sidelined him
from his last on-air job, a one-hour daily show at the New York classic rock
station WAQX-FM (Q104.3).

For many, gravel-voiced Muni -- known to fans as "Scottso" and, reflecting his
musical erudition, "the Professor" -- was the embodiment of New York radio.

He was one of the first major top 40 announcers to take his trade to the
emerging free-form FM side of the dial in the 1960s.

WAQX drive-time announcer Ken Dashow, who worked with Muni at the album-rock
powerhouse WNEW-FM for 17 years, said: "At the top of his game, he said, 'Nah,
this isn't getting it done.' They're playing the 1910 Fruitgum Co., and he
wants to play Jimi Hendrix."

Born in Wichita, Kan., and raised in New Orleans, Muni started his radio career
as a Marine stationed in the Pacific, broadcasting on Radio Guam.

He became a professional DJ, replacing Allan Freed, the early rock 'n' roll
radio godfather, at WAKR in Akron, Ohio. In the late '50s, he was the nighttime
man at New York's top 40 outlet WMCA-AM, home of "the Good Guys."

In 1960, he shifted to late evenings at WMCA's archrival WABC. He broadcast
live for the station, which was calling itself "W-A-Beatles-C," from New York's
Kennedy International Airport in January 1964 when the Fab Four's arrival there
detonated the explosion of Beatlemania in the United States.

PROGRESSIVE PIONEER

After exiting WABC, Muni moved into progressive radio with a stint at WOR-FM,
which made a short-lived stab at free-form programing.



His reputation rests on his years at WNEW, where he worked from 1967-98. There,
he was among the on-air personalities who helped give birth to the progressive
rock radio format.

Air personality Dennis Elsas of WFUV-FM in New York served as music director
and worked on the air with Muni during the '70s. He recalls, "As both our
afternoon guy and program director, he was the guiding force to making us the
premier radio station in New York."

Elsas compares Muni to programer-announcer Tom Donahue, whose work in San
Francisco during the same period launched the free-form sound on the West
Coast. "Scott was the one guy who went from AM to FM and was significant in
both," he said.

Muni was a friend to the stars and counted Paul McCartney, Pete Townshend, Mick
Jagger and Bruce Springsteen among his associates.

Dashow notes that label executives like Atlantic's Ahmet Ertegun also paid
attention when Muni spoke. "He had the ear of the power brokers here in New
York," he said. "I was just on the phone with Keith Emerson (of Emerson, Lake &
Palmer), and he said, 'Scott didn't just help ELP; he made ELP."'

Later in his career, Muni hosted such nationally syndicated shows as "Scott
Muni's World of Rock" and "Ticket to Ride," a program that spotlighted his
favorite act, the Beatles.

His distinctive voice also posited the question, "How do you spell relief?" in
a national ad for Rolaids, and he was employed in promotional spots for ABC's
"Monday Night Football."

Dashow said: "He never got bored with what he was doing. He had this childlike
fascination with radio and music, and loved 'talking to the troops,' as he put
it."

Muni is survived by his second wife and five children.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
A fixture of New York radio for nearly 50 years, starting with MCA in the late
50s.

One of the reasons that music took such a big turn for the worse in the late
60s and early 70s, an early force behind the conversion of NY/NJ area white
teenagers from top 40 to AOR.

Muni's attitude that it all started with the Beatles was sickening.






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[Regnad Kcin]

Trust me, it was Tom Donahue and Murray Kaufman who got AOR rolling. Muni
got into it a few months later when he and Roscoe and guys like Pete
Fornatale and Dennis Elsis all got together at WNEW and expanded on
Donahue's ideas. When Muni did get in to AOR it was a cannonball dive into
the pool.

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Intheway1
A fixture of New York radio for nearly 50 years, starting with MCA in
the
late
50s.

One of the reasons that music took such a big turn for the worse in the late
60s and early 70s, an early force behind the conversion of NY/NJ area white
teenagers from top 40 to AOR.
Muni's attitude that it all started with the Beatles was sickening.
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[DianeE]

Post by Regnad Kcin
Trust me, it was Tom Donahue and Murray Kaufman who got AOR rolling. Muni
got into it a few months later when he and Roscoe and guys like Pete
Fornatale and Dennis Elsis all got together at WNEW and expanded on
Donahue's ideas. When Muni did get in to AOR it was a cannonball dive into
the pool.

----------
That's the way I remember it too, it was like he changed his whole style
overnight.

DianeE

[SavoyBG]

Post by Regnad Kcin
Trust me, it was Tom Donahue and Murray Kaufman who got AOR rolling.

Donahue may have been the big behind the scens guy,b ut Murray the K never
became a big AOR DJ like Muni.

In New York AOR, Muni was Elvis to Murray's Big Boy Crudup.

My point is that Scott totally divorced his early musical roots and forever
portrayed the music as having started with the Beatles.

He still started out every one of his shows with a Beatle song, right up to his
death.






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[Intheway1]

Post by DianeE
That's the way I remember it too, it was like he changed his whole style
overnight.

Rather than turning away from his "early musical roots," as was claimed
elsewhere in this thread, what Muni did was simply turn away from the
post-Payola restrictions on what got played on the air. When WABC placed full
playlist authority with the program manager without any flexibility for the DJ,
Muni jumped at the chance to join NEW-FM, where he could play what he wanted to
in the free-form format. His personal tastes were closer to the mainstream
than most of the other DJs on the station at the time, but what he played
reflected his own preferences. He would later say that NEW-FM added twenty
years to his life.

Fred

[DianeE]

Post by Intheway1

Post by DianeE
That's the way I remember it too, it was like he changed his whole style
overnight.

Rather than turning away from his "early musical roots," as was claimed
elsewhere in this thread, what Muni did was simply turn away from the
post-Payola restrictions on what got played on the air. When WABC placed full
playlist authority with the program manager without any flexibility for the DJ,
Muni jumped at the chance to join NEW-FM, where he could play what he wanted to
in the free-form format. His personal tastes were closer to the mainstream
than most of the other DJs on the station at the time, but what he played
reflected his own preferences. He would later say that NEW-FM added twenty
years to his life.

----------
When I said "style" I didn't mean *what* he played, I meant his on-air
persona. It was like he stepped through the looking glass and went from the
"frantic" style to the "Rosko" style.

DianeE

[Intheway1]

Post by DianeE
When I said "style" I didn't mean *what* he played, I meant his on-air
persona. It was like he stepped through the looking glass and went from the
"frantic" style to the "Rosko" style.

I always considered him substantially lower keyed than, say, Murray the K or
Cousin Brucie in his AM days, but there is no question he got even mellower at
NEW.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
I always considered him substantially lower keyed than, say, Murray the K or
Cousin Brucie in his AM days, but there is no question he got even mellower at
NEW.

It was all part of that "Top 40 isn't cool" anymore mentality (the music or the
style of the DJs).






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[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
what Muni did was simply turn away from the
post-Payola restrictions on what got played on the air.
Muni jumped at the chance to join NEW-FM, where he could play what he wanted to
in the free-form format.

And what he decided to play was the problem. I wonder if he was a grand wizard
in the KKK or something.

Post by Intheway1
His personal tastes were closer to the mainstream
than most of the other DJs on the station at the time, but what he played
reflected his own preferences.

They weren't close enough to the mainstream for him to play huge mainstream
hits like "Only The Strong Survive" and "Rainy Night In Georgia."

He was too busy with his "Things from England" segment (codeword for all white
music).

Post by Intheway1
He would later say that NEW-FM added twenty
years to his life.

Too bad.






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[Intheway1]

Post by SavoyBG
And what he decided to play was the problem. I wonder if he was a grand wizard
in the KKK or something.

Nope. There wasn't a biased bone in his body.

Post by SavoyBG
They weren't close enough to the mainstream for him to play huge mainstream
hits like "Only The Strong Survive" and "Rainy Night In Georgia."

The whole point of the format was to play stuff that you didn't hear on other
stations. The fact that these were "huge mainstream hits" pretty much explains
why no one was playing them on NEW, not just Muni. Muni played Hendrix a lot,
and I recall him playing Ike & Tina Turner, Otis Redding and Curtis Mayfield
album tracks. Maybe he thought they were white acts. I'll let you tell me
what was on his mind.

Post by SavoyBG
He was too busy with his "Things from England" segment (codeword for all white
music).

Actually it was code for "Things From England."

As I recall, the segment was usually just three or four songs and focused on
stuff that hadn't yet been released in the US but was making the UK charts. It
even featured songs by black and interracial groups on occasion (Hot Chocolate
comes immediately to mind).

[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
Nope. There wasn't a biased bone in his body.

How the fuck would you know?

Post by Intheway1
The whole point of the format was to play stuff that you didn't hear on other
stations.

How about some Charles Watts and Funkadelic?

Post by Intheway1
Muni played Hendrix a lot,

Hendrix isn't black.

Post by Intheway1
I recall him playing Ike & Tina Turner, Otis Redding and Curtis Mayfield
album tracks.

Perhaps he did at first, but by the years when I heard his show (1972 and on)
there was nothing like that ever being played.

Post by Intheway1
It
even featured songs by black and interracial groups on occasion (Hot Chocolate
comes immediately to mind).

Very rare.




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[Regnad Kcin]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Intheway1
Muni played Hendrix a lot,

Hendrix isn't black.

Am I the only one who sees your response as meaning; "he didn't play your
idea of black music," and not that Bruce is just making an idiot out of
himself?

Well I look at it this way. What Miles and Bird did for the progression of
Jazz, Hendrix was doing for Rock. Now if I was a young black musician in
1969 would I want to be the next Coltrane, a well off legend, or would I
like to be the next Marvin Gaye with a long string of mainstream hits and a
fortune in the bank?

Muni was playing Rock music which was mostly white, not because it was
white, but because it was Rock and most of the young black talent wanted to
be the next Edwin Starr or Diana Ross, not a black Clapton.

-Steve, who was rediscovering the Cardinals, Ravens, Five Keys and Four
Buddies in 1969.

[SavoyBG]

From: "Regnad Kcin"
What Miles and Bird did for the progression of
Jazz, Hendrix was doing for Rock.

Hendrix was a primary reason behind the ruination of rock and roll.

Muni was playing Rock music which was mostly white, not because it was
white, but because it was Rock

So let's get this straight.

Rock and roll music is pretty much invented almost entirely by blacks, but now
the whites like Muni get to define what's rock and what isn't rock.

Why are ELP, Genesis, James Taylor and Joni Mitchell all part of "rock," but
Aretha Franklin, James Brown and the O'Jays are not part of rock?

Are you going to tell me that James Taylor "rocks?"

I guarantee Muni played a hell of a lot more James taylor and Joni Mitchell
than he played the O'Jays.




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[Regnad Kcin]

Post by SavoyBG

From: "Regnad Kcin"
What Miles and Bird did for the progression of
Jazz, Hendrix was doing for Rock.

Hendrix was a primary reason behind the ruination of rock and roll.

You missed a few others before him.

Post by SavoyBG

Muni was playing Rock music which was mostly white, not because it was
white, but because it was Rock

So let's get this straight.
Rock and roll music is pretty much invented almost entirely by blacks, but now
the whites like Muni get to define what's rock and what isn't rock.

You got it right this time but for the wrong reason. Rock and Roll as we
knew it began to die in 1964 when the British invasion came along. It got
the last nail in it's coffin with the "drug summer" of 1966. From that
point on it was just ROCK music and it was taken over by bands that for the
most part came from G.B. or garages outside of San Francisco and Los
Angeles. Most of the NYC street bands I knew were trying to get gigs at
dance clubs so were still playing "Shout", "What'd I Say", "La Bamba" and
"Ferry Across The Mersey" for the slow dance.

You are forgetting how much control that Motown and Atlantic/Stax had over
the R&B side of the business. With the advent of Motown contemporary black
music was no more the music of the minority but now the mainstream. It had
to take over the mainstream since RnR was still metamorphosing into Rock.
Not only was R&B out of the new Rock, so was Country. What little Blues
there was seemed to hang in though, but then again the Blues has influenced
what was being annexed by Rock..

What was in was jazz progressions, (prime example; the bridge in the Door's
"Light My Fire"), adapted to fuzz guitars and Fender Bass. Folk music also
made an influence as to content. There was a war on in Southeast Asia and
the fun folk of the Trios Kingston and Chad Mitchell and the Serendipity
Singers was replaced with the protest tunes of Pete Segar, Buffy St. Marie
and Tom Leher, the collective attitude of which began to spill over into
Rock. Of course that really came to a head when Joan Baez' protégée, one
Mr. Zimmerman, decided to cross that line into Rock by becoming electrified.

Post by SavoyBG
Why are ELP, Genesis, James Taylor and Joni Mitchell all part of "rock," but
Aretha Franklin, James Brown and the O'Jays are not part of rock?

Because by 1970 what was now being called Quiet Storm was it's own genre.
R&B's next rebuilding of itself, Disco would, in it's infancy, do what Rock
did 10 years earlier, borrow structures from Jazz. By the time it became
popular it had shed most of those progressions, Fusion would be the next
time R&B borrowed from Jazz again.

Post by SavoyBG
Are you going to tell me that James Taylor "rocks?"

No, he was a Trubador, as was Neil Diamond, even Rock needed a mellow side.
After all in the days of Chuck Berry, we did slow dance to the Five Satins.

Post by SavoyBG
I guarantee Muni played a hell of a lot more James taylor and Joni Mitchell
than he played the O'Jays.

And why shouldn't he??

-Steve, who prefers the Stylistics, Blue Magic and Chi-Lites from the early
70's to Judy Collins.

[SavoyBG]

From: "Regnad Kcin"

Post by SavoyBG
I guarantee Muni played a hell of a lot more James taylor and Joni Mitchell
than he played the O'Jays.

And why shouldn't he??

Because the O'Jays are more rock and roll than either of those acts. They just
had the wrong skin color. If Muni liked poets like Joni Mitchell, why didn't he
play Gil Scott-Heron?

Steve, who prefers the Stylistics, Blue Magic and Chi-Lites from the early
70's to Judy Collins.

Muni never heard of those groups. He wouldn't have dreamed of playing something
by the Stylistics.




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[Intheway1]

Post by Regnad Kcin
Am I the only one who sees your response as meaning; "he didn't play your
idea of black music," and not that Bruce is just making an idiot out of
himself?

You could be the only one. We really should wait for Diane to tell us what
Bruce meant before we have to decide.

Post by Regnad Kcin
Well I look at it this way. What Miles and Bird did for the progression of
Jazz, Hendrix was doing for Rock. Now if I was a young black musician in
1969 would I want to be the next Coltrane, a well off legend, or would I
like to be the next Marvin Gaye with a long string of mainstream hits and a
fortune in the bank?
Muni was playing Rock music which was mostly white, not because it was
white, but because it was Rock and most of the young black talent wanted to
be the next Edwin Starr or Diana Ross, not a black Clapton.

Well put, Steve, and dead on.

Fred

[Bob Dierker]

Post by Regnad Kcin
Well I look at it this way. What Miles and Bird did for the progression of
Jazz, Hendrix was doing for Rock. Now if I was a young black musician in
1969 would I want to be the next Coltrane, a well off legend, or would I
like to be the next Marvin Gaye with a long string of mainstream hits and a
fortune in the bank?

As it turns out, you weren't a young black (or white) jazz musician in
1969, and Marvin Gaye and Hendrix, as wonderful as they were, weren't
either. Jazz musicians, then and now, would probably "like to be" the
next Thelonious Monk or, failing that, Bill Evans. Those nutty guys
actually think that way!

Bob

[Intheway1]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Intheway1
Nope. There wasn't a biased bone in his body.

How the fuck would you know?

I first met him in 1969 when I was a college DJ, and saw him from time to time
over the next 30 years. He was a neighbor of relatives of mine from the mid
70s to the mid 80s down on the Jersey shore and would frequently come to family
gatherings. I got to know him better individually in the early 90s when I was
at AFTRA.

And that's how the fuck I know.

Post by SavoyBG
How about some Charles Watts and Funkadelic?

I don't know. He could have. Whether he did or not is irrelevant to the point
you were making. I do know he played the black artists I mentioned, which
refuted your contention he was playing only white music. That was your point,
remember?

Post by SavoyBG
Hendrix isn't black.

And you are.

Both statements are equally ludicrous.

Post by SavoyBG
Perhaps he did at first, but by the years when I heard his show (1972 and on)
there was nothing like that ever being played.

OK. You used to sit and listen every day to a DJ you say you disliked, who
didn't play the music you liked.

Yep, I believe that. Almost as much as that bullshit about the Ruppli
citation.

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Intheway1
It
even featured songs by black and interracial groups on occasion (Hot Chocolate
comes immediately to mind).

Very rare.

Maybe because there wasn't that much black music on the UK charts at the time?
I will take the "very rare," however, as a concession that your previous
statement about the "code word for white music" was just wrong.

Muni loved British bands and certainly played a lot of their music. At NEW he
got to play what he liked, so he played a lot of British bands. He played
black music at NEW, and continued to play it afterward on his subsequent shows
to the best of my recollection.

Your inference that Muni was a racist may be an insult to his memory, but it is
also definitely an insult to the intelligence of almost anyone who read it.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
I first met him in 1969 when I was a college DJ, and saw him from time to time
over the next 30 years. He was a neighbor of relatives of mine from the mid
70s to the mid 80s down on the Jersey shore and would frequently come to family
gatherings. I got to know him better individually in the early 90s when I was
at AFTRA.
And that's how the fuck I know.

As if he would let on to you if he did have something against blacks.

Post by Intheway1

Post by SavoyBG
How about some Charles Watts and Funkadelic?

I don't know. He could have. Whether he did or not is irrelevant to the point
you were making. I do know he played the black artists I mentioned, which
refuted your contention he was playing only white music. That was your point,
remember?

Post by SavoyBG
Hendrix isn't black.

And you are.
Both statements are equally ludicrous.

Post by SavoyBG
Perhaps he did at first, but by the years when I heard his show (1972 and

on)

Post by SavoyBG
there was nothing like that ever being played.

OK. You used to sit and listen every day to a DJ you say you disliked, who
didn't play the music you liked.
Yep, I believe that. Almost as much as that bullshit about the Ruppli
citation.

Most of the people I hung out with listened to him. It wasn't of my own
volition, they would just have his station on in their houses, cars, at school,
etc...

Post by Intheway1

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Intheway1
It
even featured songs by black and interracial groups on occasion (Hot Chocolate
comes immediately to mind).

Very rare.

Maybe because there wasn't that much black music on the UK charts at the time?

Really, let's check into that.

# 10 on March 3, 1973 was "Feel The Need In Me" by the Detroit Emeralds, was
Muni pumping that one out regularly?

Post by Intheway1
I will take the "very rare," however, as a concession that your previous
statement about the "code word for white music" was just wrong.

No, I think if he ever did play Hot Chocolate that once he realized the group
had blacks in it they were finished.

Post by Intheway1
Muni loved British bands and certainly played a lot of their music. At NEW he
got to play what he liked, so he played a lot of British bands. He played
black music at NEW, and continued to play it afterward on his subsequent shows
to the best of my recollection.
Your inference that Muni was a racist may be an insult to his memory, but it is
also definitely an insult to the intelligence of almost anyone who read it.

Why am I wasting time with you again?

I've stated my opinon on the matter. Muni was a big negative as far as I'm
concerned.








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[Intheway1]

Post by SavoyBG
Why am I wasting time with you again?

Because you made an unsuportable and stupid statement about Muni being racially
biased, and I challenged it.

Post by SavoyBG
As if he would let on to you if he did have something against blacks.

You know, you're right about that.

After all, you have several years supposedly listening to him as an adolesecent
upon which to base your insistence that Muni was a racist. That's tough
evidence to counteract.

All I have to go on is my own personal experience with him, sometimes alone,
sometimes in mixed racial company. That's no match for your analysis.

Of course, I also have to discount the fact that my uncle lived next door to
him for ten years and would have cleaned his clock if he had made a racist
comment in his presence, and definitely wouldn't have welcomed him to family
parties.

And then there's the experience of the people I have talked to in the past 24
hours who knew him, including several black performers, who knew him and liked
him. He was able to hide his racism from them, too.

But not from you, O sleuth of sleuths. Your evidence is so much more
persuasive.

Extending your inescapable logic, I also have to admit you may not be an idiot,
even though you have never said an intelligent thing on these boards. I guess
you just never know about people.

Post by SavoyBG
Most of the people I hung out with listened to him. It wasn't of my own
volition, they would just have his station on in their houses, cars, at school,
etc...

Sure. Whatever you say.
(cough--bullshit--cough)

Post by SavoyBG
# 10 on March 3, 1973 was "Feel The Need In Me" by the Detroit Emeralds, was
Muni pumping that one out regularly?

Psst! Bruce!

The Detroit Emeralds weren't a British band. I realize geography isn't one of
your strong points, but Little Rock is in Arkansas. "Things From England" is
code for "Things From ENGLAND."

Nice historical research.

Post by SavoyBG
No, I think if he ever did play Hot Chocolate that once he realized the group
had blacks in it they were finished.

Amazing. This ranks right up there with your best conclusion jumps. And, true
to form, you're wrong.

Since I know he played their SECOND hit, "Every 1s A Winner," a number of times
(because we talked about the record one time in person) I suspect he knew quite
well, and I strongly suspect he really didn't care.

You are right. You're wasting your time. But you're good for a laugh. Don't
stop on my account.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
"Things From England" is
code for "Things From ENGLAND."

You said the British charts, not me.

Like I said, things from England was a codeword for all whiteb music. Of course
98% of English artists were white, and everybody (especially Muni) knew that.

Instead of "Things From Engtland," why not "Things From Watts?"






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[Intheway1]

Post by SavoyBG
You said the British charts, not me.

I said "unreleased in the US and on the British charts."

Nice intentional selective quote. Again. You never get tired of doing that
when you get cornered, but I don't think you're fooling anyone anymore when you
do it.

Don't stop doing it on my account, even if you can. It's predictable, but it
hasn't lost its desperate humor.

Post by SavoyBG
Like I said, things from England was a codeword for all whiteb music. Of course
98% of English artists were white, and everybody (especially Muni) knew that.

This is just pathetic in so many ways beyond the simplistic circularity.

What do you mean by "especially Muni?"

Post by SavoyBG
Instead of "Things From Engtland," why not "Things From Watts?"

How many record labels in Watts? How many of them charted anything during the
period? You might be able to justify one segment a month of "Thing From
Watts."

As Steve tried patiently and in great detail to explain to you, there was an
amazing variety of musical formats available in NY during the time you claim
the racist Scott Muni destroyed radio all by himself. If Muni wasn't playing
Funkadelic, you could find it on LIB, or somewhere else on the dial.

People listened to NEW and Muni because they liked what he was playing, not
because Muni, NEW or anyone had a racial agenda. You, with your humorous
example of the guys who let you hang around them, are the only case I have ever
heard of where someone was repeatedly and consistently subjected to NEW against
his will. I am truly surprised, with your superior intellect and debating
skills, that you were unable to convince them to change the station, or at
least turn off the radio. It must have been harrowing for you.

[Tregembo]

Post by Intheway1
People listened to NEW and Muni because they liked what he was playing, not
because Muni, NEW or anyone had a racial agenda. You, with your humorous
example of the guys who let you hang around them, are the only case I have ever
heard of where someone was repeatedly and consistently subjected to NEW against
his will. I am truly surprised, with your superior intellect and debating
skills, that you were unable to convince them to change the station, or at
least turn off the radio. It must have been harrowing for you.

I realize that this is a sidebar but however good Muni was, let's not forget
that his popularity paled compared to the talent at WABC. AOR at it's peak
never reached the heights of Top 40 radio. A particular AOR jock or station
may have occasionally topped another particular TOP 40 jock or station, but
in any competitive market there were several TOP 40 stations, whose combined
popularity dwarfed AOR.

Anecdotally, in the late '60's, 1969 I think, WABC commissioned an
independent listenership poll. One of the questions concerned their
listeners' awareness of their DJs, which, IIRC, at the time were the highest
paid and one of the most listened to staffs in radio. Less than 50 percent
could identify Dan Ingram as WABC's afternoon drive personality. Dan
(again, at the time) was the highest rated and highest paid Rock Jock in the
country.

Ray Arthur

[SavoyBG]

From: "Tregembo"
AOR at it's peak
never reached the heights of Top 40 radio.

Top 40 radio was dead by the late 70s. WABC was barely hanging on by then, as
people didn't want to hear music on AM radio anymore. There were plenty of AOR
stations that were huge in their markets, especially with certain segments of
the market.

WNEW always had another huge AOR station to compete with (WPLJ), a station that
usually had better ratings because they had a much tighter playlist.

Muni is certainly not the main villian here, but I think overall he was a
negative as far as the mindset and direction that he took things in on his
show. I thought he sucked on the air on WNEW, with their overblown reverance
for things.

Stations like WNEW were largely responsible for this AOR attitude that still
exists to this day.








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[Tregembo]

Post by SavoyBG

From: "Tregembo"
AOR at it's peak
never reached the heights of Top 40 radio.

Top 40 radio was dead by the late 70s. WABC was barely hanging on by then, as
people didn't want to hear music on AM radio anymore. There were plenty of AOR
stations that were huge in their markets, especially with certain segments of
the market.

Sure, by the late '70's.

Post by SavoyBG
WNEW always had another huge AOR station to compete with (WPLJ), a station that
usually had better ratings because they had a much tighter playlist.

Tighter and more hit oriented, my point.

Post by SavoyBG
Muni is certainly not the main villian here, but I think overall he was a
negative as far as the mindset and direction that he took things in on his
show. I thought he sucked on the air on WNEW, with their overblown reverance
for things.
Stations like WNEW were largely responsible for this AOR attitude that still
exists to this day.

By today, do you mean those classic rock stations that struggle for a 2
share? And again, when you compare that anomalistic (word?) AOR station
with good ratings, remember, it's the lone AOR against 2 or 3 contemporary
hit stations whose combined ratings still bury it.

Ray Arthur

[Todd Lucas]

Post by SavoyBG
Stations like WNEW were largely responsible
for this AOR attitude that still exists to this day.

I don't know, it certainly pushed that attitude, though it may have
existed anyway, without much help from radio. Check guys like tally and
his attitudes toward stuff beginning in the late 60's, without the help
of free form radio.

Free form may have been a good idea in the beginning. It exposed people
to a lot of things not previously heard on air. The problem is that it
morphed into full-fledged, highly programmed, AOR. And those free form
jocks, many of whom sounded like they were half dead, never talked over
the music. That was okay when you were hearing stuff that rarely got
played on the radio. But the attitude carried over to AOR and helped to
ruin rock and roll radio forever. By 1981, who the hell cared if the dj
read a weather report over the intro to the millionth airing of "Black
Magic Woman"? Sounds like an improvement to me. Gee, what fun, we get
to hear the entire crappy song yet again!

I know a lot of people had/have the mindset but this "the music is too
good to talk over" baloney took almost all of the fun out of radio.
Sheeesh, AOR was rarely playing anything unique. If you want to hear
the music uninterrupted, put it on our own damn turntable.

Todd

[SavoyBG]

Post by Todd Lucas
Check guys like tally and
his attitudes toward stuff beginning in the late 60's, without the help
of free form radio.

Tally bought singles, not albums.

Post by Todd Lucas
If you want to hear
the music uninterrupted, put it on our own damn turntable.

Exactly.




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[F R]

savoybg---
A fixture of New York radio for nearly 50 years, starting with MCA in
the late
50s.
One of the reasons that music took such a big turn for the worse in the
late 60s and early 70s, an early force behind the conversion of NY/NJ
area white teenagers from top 40 to AOR.
Muni's attitude that it all started with the Beatles was sickening.
---------
nice tribute RG. couldn't you at least wait until his body was cold
before your usual "white ain't right" musings?
muni was influential as a personality when WNEW-FM was in it's infancy
and continued to be so as it and he aged.
frank

[SavoyBG]

Post by F R
couldn't you at least wait until his body was cold
before your usual "white ain't right" musings?
muni was influential as a personality when WNEW-FM was in it's infancy
and continued to be so as it and he aged.
frank

That's my point, he WAS influential, he was influential in this AOR attitude
that has been perpetuated til this day.

It even affects my music on my computer. MusicMatch is set up so it
automatically creates a seperate subfolder for any tracks that you put on to
the computer that are from the same album. I don't want it to do that, but I
have no choice, because of the attitude that the "album" is more important than
the individual tracks.

When I look at the folder I want to simply see an icon for each individual
track in that folder, but because of this "album" bullshit, instead I see a
bunch of seperate sub-folders that I have to open seperately to see the
individual tracks.

As far as his body not being cold, people die every day, I can't worry about
that. I'm not going to temper my comments because somebody died. I hate the way
that everybody thinks that because somebody just died that you have to say
something nice about them.

As far as I'm concerned Muni's influence had an impact on ruining the way that
rock and roll is perceived in the New York/New Jersey area. An entire
generation of white people were never exposed to any black music because of his
sation and its format.









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[unknown]

Post by SavoyBG
I hate the way
that everybody thinks that because somebody just died that you have to say
something nice about them.

Just say what Jackie Moms Mabley used to say...."If you can't say something
good about the dead, don't say nothing at all. He's dead. Good"

Roy

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier.

www.streetcornerbop.com

[DianeE]

Post by unknown

Post by SavoyBG
I hate the way
that everybody thinks that because somebody just died that you have to say
something nice about them.

Just say what Jackie Moms Mabley used to say...."If you can't say something
good about the dead, don't say nothing at all. He's dead. Good"

-----------
LOL!!!!! Thanks Roy for reminding me of that great line.
DianeE

[Regnad Kcin]

Johnny Otis once told me that same line to answer my question about his
feelings for Sid Nathan and BG's uncle Herman.

-Steve

Post by unknown

Post by SavoyBG
I hate the way
that everybody thinks that because somebody just died that you have to say
something nice about them.

Just say what Jackie Moms Mabley used to say...."If you can't say something
good about the dead, don't say nothing at all. He's dead. Good"
Roy
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read this in English, thank a soldier.
www.streetcornerbop.com

[SavoyBG]

From: "Regnad Kcin"
Johnny Otis once told me that same line to answer my question about his
feelings for Sid Nathan and BG's uncle Herman.

Herman was my grandfather.




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[DianeE]

Post by SavoyBG

From: "Regnad Kcin"
Johnny Otis once told me that same line to answer my question about his
feelings for Sid Nathan and BG's uncle Herman.

Herman was my grandfather.

---------
Yeah, but Herman Jr. is your uncle. Maybe Johnny Otis doesn't like him
either?
DianeE

[Regnad Kcin]

I get as confused as FOZ when it comes to deciphering Bruce's logic at
times. I meant Grand-Pa.

Post by DianeE

Post by SavoyBG

From: "Regnad Kcin"
Johnny Otis once told me that same line to answer my question about his
feelings for Sid Nathan and BG's uncle Herman.

Herman was my grandfather.

---------
Yeah, but Herman Jr. is your uncle. Maybe Johnny Otis doesn't like him
either?
DianeE

[Mr. M]

Post by SavoyBG
It even affects my music on my computer. MusicMatch is set up so it
automatically creates a seperate subfolder for any tracks that you put on to
the computer that are from the same album. I don't want it to do that, but I
have no choice, because of the attitude that the "album" is more important than
the individual tracks.
When I look at the folder I want to simply see an icon for each individual
track in that folder, but because of this "album" bullshit, instead I see a
bunch of seperate sub-folders that I have to open seperately to see the
individual tracks.

Try this:

go to options/settings/recorder/tracks directory

set up a directory for new tracks or leave it as it is

check off track name only

note the sample path

go to view/recorder

delete headers "album" & "artist"

load the CD

select the desired tracks

-name them in any manner desired

this will give you individual files, not in any main folder except
what is named in the sample path.

MN

[SavoyBG]

Post by Mr. M
delete headers "album" & "artist"

I see it, that should work, thanks.

At least we have the option to set it up that way, even if the default is set
up for AOR Assholes.




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[Intheway1]

Post by SavoyBG
As far as I'm concerned Muni's influence had an impact on ruining the way that
rock and roll is perceived in the New York/New Jersey area. An entire
generation of white people were never exposed to any black music because of his
sation and its format.

An ENTIRE generation?

NEVERr exposed?

Come back off the ledge, Bruce. You claim is going to come as some surprise to
the people who, at the time, thought soul music was black music, isn't it?

I recall there being a lot of Stax and Motown on the Top 40 radio during that
time (and they weren't being played by NEW-FM), and WNJR and WLIB weren't
exactly playing the Beatles 24/7, either.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
Come back off the ledge, Bruce. You claim is going to come as some surprise to
the people who, at the time, thought soul music was black music, isn't it?
I recall there being a lot of Stax and Motown on the Top 40 radio during that
time (and they weren't being played by NEW-FM),

By the early 70s almost every white teenager in suburban NJ was listening ONLY
to WNEW-FM or WPLJ-FM. Top 40 was dying. Most kids liked only white rock and
roll, and had no interest in what was going on at Stax or Motown in the 70s.

The vast majority of white teenagers by the early to mid-70s had no interest in
black music...ZERO....and it stayed that way until MTV started exposing them to
rap and hip hop, which actually took over as the more doiminant music, even
among whites.

Post by Intheway1
WNJR and WLIB weren't
exactly playing the Beatles 24/7, either.

It's not any different the other way around either. Very few young blacks had
any interest in any white rock and roll in those days, and probably still don't
now.

The difference is that there were always stations that played (almost)
exclusively R & B and/or soul, long before there was FM rock.

It's not just the white/black thing, it's also the ALBUM oriented thing, where
the accent was not on individual songs anymore, but on albums....a mindset that
I'm sure the record companies embraced fully, as they could sell more expensive
LPs rather than singles.

You almost never hear people talk about a new song now, it's always "the new
album" by somebody.






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[F R]

SavoyBG--
As far as his body not being cold, people die every day, I can't worry
about that. I'm not going to temper my comments because somebody died. I
hate the way that everybody thinks that because somebody just died that
you have to say something nice about them.
As far as I'm concerned Muni's influence had an impact on ruining the
way that rock and roll is perceived in the New York/New Jersey area. An
entire generation of white people were never exposed to any black music
because of his sation and its format.
---------------
no, don't temper your comments, maybe just repress them for a few days.
i suppose you are equally upset that an entire generation of black
people were never exposed to white music?
frank

[Regnad Kcin]

Post by SavoyBG
As far as his body not being cold, people die every day, I can't worry about
that. I'm not going to temper my comments because somebody died. I hate the way
that everybody thinks that because somebody just died that you have to say
something nice about them.

I sort of agree with you on this point, but isn't the real reason we say
good things about the dead is the fact that we can no longer say bad things
about them to their face?

Post by SavoyBG
As far as I'm concerned Muni's influence had an impact on ruining the way that
rock and roll is perceived in the New York/New Jersey area. An entire
generation of white people were never exposed to any black music because of his
sation and its format.

It wasn't Muni, it was the whole radio business trying to find a nitch.
WNEW had it's ups and downs but kept holding hte format while other stations
gave up. I was privy to inside info during the early 70's and here is the
real story of AOR on the NYC radio dial.

During the hey day of your beloved "top 40" most listeners would make the
decision about the type of music they liked at an early age. Usually the
type the parents either liked or hatred became the favorite. It was obvious
to researchers that when a tune from a genre someone liked was played on a
top 40 station that person began to pay attention to the radio, but would
mentally tune out during say a Sinatra record.

AOR was tried on WOR-FM by Rosko, Murray and Muni. Londsbury was on in the
morning and out of the loop because of the presence of a resistive
management. When RKO gave the nod to Drake-Chenault to take over, Rosko
resigned on the air a good month before the change was to take effect.

Meanwhile, a worried WNEW management got a reminder of how sucessful
Donahue's KMPX and Pete Foratale's show on WFUV were by Bob Hughes, a WFUV
staffer who was working part time there. Hughes set up a meeting with Rosko
and Fornatale. WNEW-FM decided to go with the format change, with Rosko
bringing in Muni and Fornatale grabbing Elsis.

Now if WNEW-FM had been the be-all and end-all of AOR radio as you suggest
then why were there at least 3 other attempts at it in the market that later
found other nitches? WAQX, the last station Scottso was with had been WNCN,
a classical station. But for a brief period in 1972 it was WQIV, an AOR
attempt that was pulled out of existance by the WNCN listener guild who
protesed the sale. This staiton was more community oriented, taking it's
cue from KMPX. A just out of jail Gus Gossert, who helped develop the free
form of KMPX, was offered a job there. He told me he was turning it down
since the writing was on the wall with the listener guild, even though it
was beating WNEW for daytime quarters.

WHOM-FM, the Continental Sound, was about 25 years ahead of it's time, it's
format now lives with little modification on WPAT-FM. They also tried a
change to AOR, bringing in Murray Kaufman as morning man and changing call
to WKTU. Gus got an offer here too, but he was killed before he could take
it. By then WNEW-FM was the undisputed leader and so it got dumped for
Disco which WPIX-FM stupidly had droped for Free Form just before the
release of Saturday Night Fever. Of course WPIX in it's last incognation
did have an oldies show with Ralph Newman co-hosting. We should mention
that WPIX-FM had been the City's first oldies station when Gus went there
after leaving WCBS-FM but left it for early Disco.

Now as for some of the other attempts by NYC radio stations to find nitches,
Remember WHN and then WYNY as Counrty stations? WLIB-FM, then WRVR passed
the all Jazz mantle to WBGO and WQCD, (if you can call what WQCD plays
Jazz?). Do you remember when WBLS was playing pop music during the day,
(mostly black but an occasional white artist was heard), and R&B hits at
night, and yes early Disco too.

Don't blame Muni for the way the radio business works, he didn't design it.

-Steve

[Intheway1]

Post by Regnad Kcin
It wasn't Muni, it was the whole radio business trying to find a nitch.
WNEW had it's ups and downs but kept holding hte format while other stations
gave up. I was privy to inside info during the early 70's and here is the
real story of AOR on the NYC radio dial.
During the hey day of your beloved "top 40" most listeners would make the
decision about the type of music they liked at an early age. Usually the
type the parents either liked or hatred became the favorite. It was obvious
to researchers that when a tune from a genre someone liked was played on a
top 40 station that person began to pay attention to the radio, but would
mentally tune out during say a Sinatra record.
AOR was tried on WOR-FM by Rosko, Murray and Muni. Londsbury was on in the
morning and out of the loop because of the presence of a resistive
management. When RKO gave the nod to Drake-Chenault to take over, Rosko
resigned on the air a good month before the change was to take effect.
Meanwhile, a worried WNEW management got a reminder of how sucessful
Donahue's KMPX and Pete Foratale's show on WFUV were by Bob Hughes, a WFUV
staffer who was working part time there. Hughes set up a meeting with Rosko
and Fornatale. WNEW-FM decided to go with the format change, with Rosko
bringing in Muni and Fornatale grabbing Elsis.
Now if WNEW-FM had been the be-all and end-all of AOR radio as you suggest
then why were there at least 3 other attempts at it in the market that later
found other nitches? WAQX, the last station Scottso was with had been WNCN,
a classical station. But for a brief period in 1972 it was WQIV, an AOR
attempt that was pulled out of existance by the WNCN listener guild who
protesed the sale. This staiton was more community oriented, taking it's
cue from KMPX. A just out of jail Gus Gossert, who helped develop the free
form of KMPX, was offered a job there. He told me he was turning it down
since the writing was on the wall with the listener guild, even though it
was beating WNEW for daytime quarters.
WHOM-FM, the Continental Sound, was about 25 years ahead of it's time, it's
format now lives with little modification on WPAT-FM. They also tried a
change to AOR, bringing in Murray Kaufman as morning man and changing call
to WKTU. Gus got an offer here too, but he was killed before he could take
it. By then WNEW-FM was the undisputed leader and so it got dumped for
Disco which WPIX-FM stupidly had droped for Free Form just before the
release of Saturday Night Fever. Of course WPIX in it's last incognation
did have an oldies show with Ralph Newman co-hosting. We should mention
that WPIX-FM had been the City's first oldies station when Gus went there
after leaving WCBS-FM but left it for early Disco.
Now as for some of the other attempts by NYC radio stations to find nitches,
Remember WHN and then WYNY as Counrty stations? WLIB-FM, then WRVR passed
the all Jazz mantle to WBGO and WQCD, (if you can call what WQCD plays
Jazz?). Do you remember when WBLS was playing pop music during the day,
(mostly black but an occasional white artist was heard), and R&B hits at
night, and yes early Disco too.
Don't blame Muni for the way the radio business works, he didn't design it.
-Steve

Excuse the full repost, but that explanation deserves it.

Gus Gossert opened my ears to a lot of music I had either forgotten or, in many
cases, never even heard the first time around.

New York radio was never monochromatic, and in some ways the spectrum of
choices available during the days you recount was really a sumptuous buffet for
the musically curious.

Fred

[SavoyBG]

Post by Intheway1
New York radio was never monochromatic, and in some ways the spectrum of
choices available during the days you recount was really a sumptuous buffet for
the musically curious.

But the average 16 year old suburban white kid id not musically curious.






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[Regnad Kcin]

Post by SavoyBG
But the average 16 year old suburban white kid id not musically curious.

Maybe where you came from in the wilds of New Jersey that is true, but us
urban kids were more alert to our surroundings. When I hung out on the
corner, between the ages of 14 to 18, our crowd would discuss the variety
shows aimed at our age group, Shindig and Hullabaloo usually and Clay Cole
too. Some of us discussed Dick Clark, those of us who got home early enough
to watch "..Action..." or Bandstand. Acts that appeared on Ed Sullivan and
Perry Como were analyzed too. Yeah, most of these shows were "whitebread",
but we saw the smidgen of Motown and Stax artists, and many remember the
attempted come back of Frankie Lymon on Shindig.

Some memorable conversations were about:

Someone seeing Frank Sinatra perform live,

Henny Youngman's one line comedy, Please,

Everyone doing Senior Wences, ("iss all right? - s'AWLRIGHT!)

And would Anna Moffo eventually replace Renata Tibaldi as the supreme diva
of Grand Opera. Hey, it was an Italian neighborhood.

-Steve, who sang "What's Your Name" with Charlie Ursitti on the corner of
Spring and Lafayette Sts., serenading our 3rd grade teacher, Miss Massi who
lived across the street, who could not put anything bad on our permanent
records since we had long since left for high school and far enough away
that she couldn't throw water down on us. (Yeah, we sounded like howling
dogs).